Diam Mountain duo-pack (2lvls, 4 Jazz mainly)

  • Rating: 5.6

Reviews and comments

    jjturbo9 3 Mar 2025, 12:30 (edited 26 Mar 25, 23:14)

    I'd give it a 10 but sometimes the tiles don't connect perfectly visually. I changed such visual imperfections so many times I'm okay with the few that are still in the level. Maybe I'll fix it later but the level is complete other than that in my opinion. So a 9.6!!!

    EDIT01: I edited the visual imperfections and it's a 10 now within the limits of not using angel script. Maybe that's why 9.5 is still a good rating, a turbo 9! ;) I don't miss anything in the level though, so no angel script needed, but I still think it could be cool. I also might have missed a detail, although I think I fixed it all. But just to be safe I don't give my own level a 10.

    EDIT02: I also played the level with a controller (more difficult for me) and realized one part would be too difficult for normal difficulty, so I added two save posts. If someone already downloaded and reviewed the old version they got a pm of the change. But I changed it an hour after the initial upload. Now the level is perfect and it's solvable with just using a controller only, from start to finish. I'll leave the rest of the reviews to others, I'm done with it (except playing the level and making/watching a YT video about it probably)

    EDIT03 It's really finished now with the 2nd level added. Last time I still improved things after uploading, but this time I had some more experience to make less mistakes. So although 1 fix or 2 might happen, I don't think much is needed. A 9.6 and after I recorded a run-through video for YT and upload it I might have to fix some things, it might get a 9.9 or 10.

    EDIT04 On a final note, I'm fine with the overal score right now. AngelScript is also added so it's better although the process of making it was a bit more difficult. That might affect my score a little bit, it's now just an 8.7 imo. The average score shouldn't get lower so I closed the reviews for now. I expected around a 7 although my own rating is higher, but sometimes you get rated lower than you expect and it's fine. I'm already happy it's not lower.

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    DoubleGJ 4 Mar 2025, 16:51

    4Not recommended:

    Well, I've seen worse first levels.

    The layout feels largely incidental, very likely made up on the fly as the author was checking out what JCS can do. There's a sense of sections, where one concept is immediately dropped forever as another one comes up. This might be seen as a positive, as it technically keeps things fresh. However, given the nature of these gimmick, it doesn't feel intentional to me in any way, just classic "my first JJ2 level" shenanigans.

    First section starts you off having to collect coins to progress, and you have to do this while falling. This is most likely why the level is supposedly "4 Jazz", but I played Lori who also has a copter ears move and even so I found it impossible to collect all of them on the first try (and you do need all of them). So you have to go back, and the method to do this feels counterintuitive, mostly because it's placed near a tree. JJ2 experience says the tree branches are one way platforms, but not this time, and it almost feels like intentional padding.

    Here the player is thrown into what feels like JJGBA's shop intermissions, except everything is free. Worth noting is that this establishes that ammo is only provided in this level as part of puzzles and progression. I don't like this in general, as I feel utility is secondary to combat value for JJ2 weapons and should be mostly limited to secrets, but even aside from my personal preference this level does the cardinal sin of not respawning things necessary for progression. Instead, whenever there's a task you can fail, you're provided with suicide spots. Even in vanilla JJ2, there's a quicker and more elegant way to do this via CTF bases, so I'd recommend that next time if you don't want to delve into scripting just yet. Then again, JJ2+ death pits are easy to place even in JCS.

    The next section I can only describe as things copied and pasted almost at random, just to fill space and play time. This is probably where jjturbo9 figured out how to copy things. The regular path is supposedly very hard, and well, it's not a cakewalk with all the bees, but you also get plenty of carrots and because these are the same repeating chunks of tiles you know what to do after you've climbed the trees once. As for the other path, I'm confused if the "secret" is a secret at all, given how obvious it is and that the level outright tells you about it twice. I guess not, since it's more or less assumed as necessary for the next section. The highlight here was having to get a Float Lizard to follow the player, and then avoiding smoke rings on the way up. I know I've seen this combination of ideas before, but not a lot.

    It's at this point that the level uses the Sugar Rush mechanic as a means of progression. It's a novel idea, but because it's not scripted in any way, it doesn't do its job. Any character other than Jazz can just blast through, and even with Jazz it's entirely possible to tank enough hits to speed to the other side. Out of all the things in the level, this is where Angelscript would most come in handy.

    The worst path though is the maze. On the technical side of things, it's actually the most impressive part of the level: generous use of new tiles, a frog puzzle that feels quite advanced for someone's first JJ2 level, and a decent sense of player jump height. However, all of this doesn't help that this is simply a maze through and through, something not very well suited for JJ2. If it was populated more interestingly, perhaps. But right now it's only a bit more palatable than Queen of Board (which sucks and I'm not open to discussion about it). The biggest problem is the concept of wrong turns. Sure, they're clearly marked. But it's still a ridiculous obstacle, with a punishment incommensurable with the kind of mistake you're doing. Furthermore, the Trigger Zones aren't properly placed – it's very easy to end up stuck in one of the appearing blocks, and then the only way out is cheats or level reload. Near the end, you get an option to backtrack. It's fool's gold. Whatever you might've missed, the level has so few items that it's definitely not worth having to go through the entire maze again to get back on track. A shortcut that opens up once the maze has been completed once would be nice.

    And finally there's the boss arena. Is this a spoiler? There's no story, so I don't think so. The area is absurdly large considering the boss itself is stuck on a small platform. Well, at least you can't go so far away that the boss would despawn, so points for that I suppose. Miniscule ammo amounts in the level don't matter either, since you get the best powerup in the game just handed to you.

    Now, as a final note, I'm not the type of person to complain that "you didn't use the tileset conversion that I'd worked so hard on, weeehhhhhhh" – but the yet another new Diamondus edit included with this level feels extremely superfluous. It's just FawFul's old edit with a few tiles changed, and most of them are really unnecessary. I recommend trying out the custom MLLE level editor, which lets you use vertically flipped tiles with a single key press; you wouldn't have to include every tile you're flipping in the tileset. You can also easily place a player character sprite onto the sprite layer and color it like a multiplayer skin however you'd like, it's just a few script lines! I know it feels impossibly hard at first, but it's really simple once you check out a few existing JJ2+ examples. Also, placing flowers on tree branches is certainly a… choice. Mistletoe, I guess?

    jjturbo9, I hope my review and its rating doesn't discourage you from making more JJ2 levels. Rather, my intention is to give you an incentive to strive to be better, to learn more and especially learn from other custom levels. It's a long way to the top (if you wanna rock 'n' roll), but since you already went the extra mile to make your first level bigger and better designed than most first levels that land on J2O, I'm certain you can get even better!

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    abgrenv 3 Mar 2025, 14:54 (edited 6 Mar 25, 11:17)

    6.5Recommended:

    Uhm, you know you can't rate your own levels right? :D

    Overall it's a pretty cool level, with some nice sections. Some complaints though, I don't know if it is to troll the player, or just an accident but the first text tells the player to follow the red arrows, otherwise the present is opened too soon. Obviously in this case it isn't an issue since you won't soft lock yourself, you'll just take 1 damage. But later you can get killed by trigger blocks locking you withing spikepits if you aren't sure the text advice was trolling you, or they accidentally wrote the incorrect color as information.

    Also in the same area, it would have been nice to give a hint that the crate contains a green spring, since shooting it instantly (and instinctively) will force a restart since you'll have to kill yourself on the spikes since you can't get out of the area any more.

    Other complaint. when you get to the "forest" area, the text tells you to go through the rabbit tunnel, said tunnel allegedly contains 96 food pickups. So you need 4 extra for sugar rush. You'll later get to an area, that can only be passed through while having sugar rush. Now the issue is, that you are supposed to get the rest from the forest area, which you skipped through the tunnel. Apparently it is supposed to contain 3 extra food pickups, the 4th one supposedly being right before the area that needs sugar rush. A helpful text is even there to advise you to pick up the 4th food item, after collecting the ones from the forest. You even have destructable blocks that make sure you don't pick up the 4th food item by accident (since you can only reach the area through a Float Lizard copter).
    Now for the issue, I actually activated the sugar rush in the forest area, before picking up the 4th food item. So there are either more food items in the tunnel or the forest, or a more annoying issue, that being that dying, doesn't reset your food pickup count. Meaning that when I refused to go through the rabbit tunnel, I reached one of the food items in the forest and picked it up before dying. Therefore breaking the intended sequencing of the level.

    Is it partially my fault? Sure, but not going through the tunnel to avoid the forest isn't even a big deal. You go through a bunch of bees, but the respawn timer is actually generous, and you even get a sufficient amount of health pickups. So technically the area is completely passable without avoiding it, especially considering that you have to go there regardless anyway.

    So yeah, some sequences can work in an unintended way, which will make the experience a bit worse.

    Other than that, it's a decent level, a bit standard apart from some scripting and unique sequences but definitely fun to play.

    Edit: just noticed the uploader claiming it isn't the first level from him, I gave the 7.5 with the context of the level being the first creation of the uploader, with that in mind, I'll slightly reduce the score

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    Violet CLM 6 Mar 2025, 07:20

    6Recommended:

    I saw a quote recently that stuck with me: "As a designer, I'm a very good developer."

    This feels like a level that was developed more than it was designed. It's a series of (unrelated) ideas, fairly novel, executed in a technically correct way. You collect coins but you use a float lizard's copter to get multiple chances to collect those coins. You try different ammo types on some ? blocks. You carefully manage both your food counter and a float lizard. You pay close attention to arrow colors and go through a relatively interesting frog morph puzzle. You, uh, okay, I dunno what's supposed to be going on in the boss battle: you just shoot it and it dies.

    Visually it's fine. Nothing about it is particularly attractive, and the thin lines of the forest are kind of hard to pick out against the background, but all the tiles line up together that I noticed and everything's used how it's meant to be used. The visuals are a vehicle for the gameplay—that's totally fine, normal stuff for single player.

    Everything seems to work, except, as noted, the sugar rush puzzle, where it's too easy to do things in the wrong order. I'm just not convinced by the argument that it works if you do it properly. If people can do it improperly, unless they're doing it improperly really deliberately, then that's a failing of the design, not of the people. It's fine for a puzzle to include ways to fail, but the trouble is, a failure takes so long to recover from that it's just not enjoyable.

    Otherwise, though, yes, everything works. But the thing I keep coming back to is: is it fun? Well… not necessarily. The ideas are a little too bit just the raw ideas without enough concession to gameplay. I do think the frog puzzle is fine, but I don't know why I should care about the (bizarrely long) sequence of following blue arrow signs instead of red arrow signs. There's nothing actually enjoyable about shooting a block with different weapons until it explodes, even if it's technically executed perfectly. What most of these ideas need is to be better integrated into a level with more traditional gameplay… rewards, filler, however you want to describe it. Look at the Fortress of Floods, for example: it starts from a basic idea like you'd find in this level, "go up faster than the water does," but merges that idea with traditional JJ2 gameplay to form an actual game that the player plays, instead of dutifully following the instructions to act out the developer's idea.

    This is complicated stuff to describe or implement, and I recognize the danger of subjectivity in ending my review by saying "this isn't fun." But I think there's good work here that just needs some more time to cook.

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